Smoaking not permitted

[king_pellinor]

Somebody raised the question: if we have a load of tents at Summerfest, which people can wander in and out of freely, are we affected by the Health Act 2006 and all the stuff about non-smoking areas.

The answer seems to be yes.  Although the idea is that we hire a remote campsite, so the public will not be in evidence, the law is written such that if there is an enclosed space to which a member of the public could possibly manage to gain access, it must have a "no smoking" sign on it.  That is even if the member of the public is not invited, not welcome, and would indeed be thrown out on discovery. One has to assume a general public intent on poking their collective noses in where the are least wanted, in order to sniff out not just smoking, but the absence of banned smoking.

This seems to be the key point: Smoking is Bad, therefore Not Banning Smoking is Just As Bad.

Which is stupid.

From reading the legislation, I find that my garden shed needs a "no smoking" sign on.  This is because it its enclosed, and because the public could obtain access (by going through the closed-but-not-locked garden gate and into the closed-but-not-locked shed door), and it is not a dwelling place or a vehicle, it is subject to the law.

This is stupid.  I do not intend to comply with this bit of the legislation.

Anyway,  as far as Summerfest goes I have simply invited the local smoking enforcement officer to wander round and have a look.  As he is the chap who would prosecute any transgressions, I am assuming that keeping him happy will be fine.

Can we not turn it around?  The legislation clearly says that smoking in enclosed places is normally prohibited.  Why is it therefore necessary to say "no smoking", when this is the default?  Why not signpost the very few enclosed areas in which smoking is permitted?  The current way of doing it merely makes offenders of people who hadn't imagined that they should have to ban something they weren't intending to do.

Do we have to put up "no murdering" signs, too?
 

Comments

[evilmissbecky.livejournal.com]

Er, how exactly does one define an open area of land to be "enclosed"? Unless the campsite has invisible glass walls serving as its borders, it seems pretty ridiculous to call said campsite, "enclosed."

"Enclosed" = "four walls and a roof."

'tis a very silly law, I agree.

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

Open land is fine, but tents are enclosed.

"Enclosed" means walls round more than half the perimeter, plus a roof.

[evilmissbecky.livejournal.com]

Okay, so the campsite was not what I was picturing. Still, it seems quite silly.

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

Oh, definitely very silly.

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

Indeed it is a very stupid law, I lovedbunn's recent post of the notice at a churchdoor. Perhaps we should suggest, using that nice pet peeves website at No.10, that they adapt the law to allow the use of specific notices. Heathrow had smoking areas on the pavement outside when we were there recently, just where a car bomber could get them too - so no doubt they'll be moved in due course ...

[helflaed.livejournal.com]

I was visiting some friends a couple of weeks ago. The husband is a farmer and has his office in the old kitchen. In their house. Where they live. It has to have a no smoking notice on the door.

[hmmm-tea.livejournal.com]

...and it is not a dwelling place or a vehicle...

Does that mean, if you placed a car in the middle of your pub, you could then let people smoke?

[kargicq.livejournal.com]

my garden shed ... is not a dwelling place or a vehicle...

But is it a garage, outhouse or other structure for the exclusive use of persons living in the dwelling? (The Smoke-free (exemptions and vehicles) Regulations 2007, 3(3))

I suppose it depends if anybody who doesn't (umm) dwell in the dwelling ever visits the shed. What a sloppily drafted piece of nonsense! I'm always struck by how many loopholes there are in documents prepared by people who are paid ridiculous amounts of money to get it right.

[helflaed.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm- Parliament is full of lawyers, Lawyers make money from legal ambiguities. Sloppy drafting causes legal ambiguities. Can anyone lese see where this is leading?

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'd missed that. OK, I only need a no smoking sign on it if I let the next-door neighbout borrow my lawnmower...

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

What if we let the cats in the shed? They're not "persons living in the dwelling." And I'm sure there are slugs, spiders etc. in it. Again "not persons". Though perhaps they're argue that slugs, spiders etc. aren't likely to smoke, and can't even read a "no smoking" sign even if they could. But what do MPs know about secret life of slugs?

Oh! My Mum uses the shed when we drag her here to fix our garden she comes to visit us. Oh dear...

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

And speaking of cats: Did you feed the kitties this morning, when I was asleep, enjoying my ill-gotten day off, while you were struggling into work despite not getting home until 9 most days this week? The kitties swore blind that you hadn't fed them.

[rhymer23.livejournal.com]

The LJ user formerly known as ladyofastolat was ripped apart and eaten by her starving kitties earlier today, while waiting in vain for an answer from her husband about whether the cats needed feeding, or not. In the ongoing absence of an answer, she assumed that, because of the general podginess of the kitties, it was best to err on the "don't feed them" side. She was wrong.

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

The user currently known as King_pellinor has no sympathy for anyone who gets to spend their day off at home, rather than having to go into the office to finish up.

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

No.

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

That is quite a good idea, especially what with FnH having a rumoured Thieves' Guild.

I say rumoured as I'm quite sure none of the characters I know would join such an organisation. Though a lot do seem to carry very short light daggers, I have to say... ;-)

[purplecat]

Do you think there is a shed at No 10 Downing Street? If so, one assumes it has a no smoking sign on the door since I imagine all manner of employees may be required to enter the shed.

[purplecat]

Just in case you hadn't already thought of this. Bill has pointed out you had better warn the traders about what is going on and, in particular, about the visit of the enforcement officer.

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

It's not so much a Council enforcer as the chap who advises businesses on how to be smoke-free and hands out notices. But yes, we are trying to make sure the traders and so on are OK. I have, for example, made sure the food chappy is covered for selling not food late at night (which is another licensable thing).

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

Read "hot" for "not" in my last - not having even met the chap, it seems a shame to impugn his offerings :-)